Last August, I wrote about why everyone should have kids. At several points in the combox, I was called out for being selfish. According to both troll and pleasant soul, the reasons I provided in said post were all about me. It got me thinking, perhaps I am guilty of such crimes?
And so, here’s a remix of version one, a 180 degree response with the least amount of me as possible.
You (and by “you” I mean you and your lovely, married spouse) should have kids…
because you love your spouse
The person you married is the one that will guide you closer to the final destination you both seek- heaven. In achieving such a lofty task, the two must sacrifice everything from poker night to shopping sprees to build one another up in holiness.
However, that doesn’t mean one can’t find joy in selfless obedience to one another. Indeed, the procreative act of intercourse is the most selfless act one can possibly do with their spouse and it certainly has its pleasures. To connect in mind, body and soul in such a way produces not only a natural high, but the natural fruits of that high, namely children, come as a pleasing result.
If you love your spouse, you don’t desire them to offend the natural order by mucking it up with birth control, abortion or other contraceptives. Truly loving each other requires both partners to be holy enough to desire not their personal pleasures, rather to be so open to one another that the miracle of life can take place within the limitless abyss of their pure, unadulterated love.
because you love your kids (even if you don’t have them yet)
In the same way that spouses desire each other’s salvation, so too do they long for their children to achieve holiness and purity. Even before one becomes a parent, the wish that their children would be well behaved, successful and happy exists. In wanting such things, they solidify their love for them even before they enter our world. When they do come, a parent who loves their child is willing to do everything within their power to teach them virtue so that they will become strong when misfortune occurs, joyful in the company of their loved ones and successful in every aspect of their lives.
because you love your community
In teaching children virtue, they become a beacon of hope to a world in such dire need of it. The nuclear family edifies society by embracing their children with love so that they can then defy the evils of the world not by being oblivious to it, but by being an instrument of justice, dignity, and peace. Whether they become doctors or janitors, priests or presidents, the loved child holds within him/her a power greater than the worst evils the world can throw at them. If you don’t believe me, ask anyone who knew Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King Jr., Ghandi or Mother Teresa. Such servicial power is a wick just waiting to be ignited by the eager hearts of our children who desire and have the means of producing a better world.
because you love Truth
IgnitumToday is a religious online magazine. Our “ideologies” are Catholic and, since we care so much about absolute Truth, we tend to engage people in conversation as to what that Truth actually entails. Granted, our reach is only extendable to those who find us who, more often than not, are complete strangers. This form of evangelization, although fairly effective, has the drawback of being impersonal.
Having children, on the other hand, allows one to engage our own flesh and blood with the ever-changing realities of the world and how they relate to Truth. By pitting social issues and experiences across the broad time frame that spans between parent and child, the discovery of that which is good, beautiful and true rises from the indifference and boredom that the world seems to love. Together, families reign above the nonsensical passions, emotions and meaningless aspects of the world and share the intimate joy of the things that matter most in life, namely each other.
because you love God
The stork doesn’t bring babies. Our children don’t exist in heaven before they come down to us. The only way they can exist is if we allow ourselves to join God in creating the miracle of life. In having children, you please God by taking them into your care and guiding them along the narrow road to heaven. Such is His desire that all would have joy in abundance both on this side of death and the other side of life with His Son Jesus and His eternal and inexpressible elation of heaven.
because you don’t know what its like
If you haven’t had kids, and especially if you don’t desire to have them, you don’t know what it is like. Even Coca-Cola knows that.
So yeh, I’ll admit it, I’m selfish. I want all the bliss that having children entails. However, I want them for all of the right reasons.
252 thoughts on “Six More Reasons Why Everyone Should Have kids”
“….by mucking it up with birth control, abortion or other contraceptive..” Yes, women are mucking it up with the birth control, abortion, contraceptive.
Is anything there that men are mucking it up with ?
Do men also use birth control, contraceptive, or do men abort their unborn children by starvation ? If a man does not provide food to the unborn child he procreated, then, the child will die…and that means that the father aborted his unborn child….
I don’t know why you seem to think that he was referring only to women. I know the author is a man but I don’t think this was addressed only to men (and so the spouse he refers to could be the husband).
Keep feminism out of this.
You’re literally saying “make sure women aren’t considered equal to men while we have this discussion”
Men and women are not equal you fool. Surely they have equal importance in the eyes of The Lord, but obviously, they manifest vast differences in physiology and psychology.
Victor,
With respect, it’s wise to assume that readers whom you don’t know are relatively linear thinkers. This means that when one is, oneself, a non-linear thinker, one cannot merely capture a snapshot of one’s own thoughts and core-dump them, scattershot, on to the page. The result will be far too disorganized and impressionistic for the average reader to follow.
Perhaps if you made a bit more effort to tie your comment back to the original piece? To show how the one follows from the other?
Quite wrong Victor. Not providing food is not the same as killing the child. I think your reasoning is a tad confused.
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Great article. It took 45 years for me to understand why God wants us to have Children. We had four children, but I wish we had many more. Too late now.
‘The closer to Satan people become the more they will hate children.’ Evidence?
Evidence not true?
No. YOU made the assertion. The onus is on YOU to make your case.
Don’t bother with the religious, they are not rational thinking beings.
I know.
Liberals love abortion.
yes we smother our cheerios in it and have it for breakfast
How does not wanting to have children equate with ‘hating children’? Thats like saying priests hate married couples because they themselves are not married.
How is breeding like an animal holy?
I just hear one assumption after another. There is no connection between any of the thoughts.
Sadly I think the author of the original piece is guilty of not communicating well on this (I’m making the assumption that he actually understands the teaching of the Christian faith on human life and procreation).
It is NOT, in Christianity, a requirement or moral necessity that “everyone” should have children.
It IS a moral requirement that everyone regard the having of children as a positive moral good.
Consecrated religious (monks, nuns, etc.) typically take vows under which they sacrifice this positive moral good as an offering to God. Consequently, they do not have children…but not because they think children are a bad thing; rather, because they think that children are a good thing and that the having of children is such a very wonderful thing that forgoing these goods and “being married to God” is a tremendous act of service and worship.
A similar service is available for those who are single: They have no call to religious life, but being unmarried are morally obligated not to engage in the marital act.
There is consequently room in the Church for all: Those who will have, and those who will not have, children. But there is no room for the attitude that children are bad, or that having children is bad, or that new human beings are ever more of a problem than they are of a joy. Each new human being is a NET POSITIVE for God’s creation. (I am describing the value of the human person AS a human person, setting aside for the moment the complicated question of whether the eventual deeds of that person, if very evil, might alter the balance.)
When the author gives “reasons why everyone should have kids,” I suspect and believe (because I want to give folks the benefit of the doubt) he is intending, with some hyperbole, to contradict that attitude of modern post-Christian culture which states that there are “too many people” and “it’s wrong to bring a child into the world” and that abortion is morally licit and that the absence of children makes things better.
I take this view of the original piece, even though it requires giving the author some grace and flexibility on some points, because I find it more likely, on a Catholic website, that his intent was to agree with the Catholic Church, than that his intent was to contradict her.
I certainly do enjoy hyperbole. Perhaps in time i can manage to use it more effectively than I did in these last couple of posts 🙂
And what of those that do not want children but love them nonetheless?
God gave us freedom to chose. I am speaking of what God wants, not what people want. As people come close to God they will want a family with children; this is what God puts in us as the Holy Spirit works in us. I am speaking in general terms of course. There would be many times when having children is not possible, or maybe God has something else for you to do.
People in the USA are very selfish and generally want to satisfy their own desires first, so the birth rate is low. We have not had a normal birth rate since the end of the 19th century. The so called baby boom after WWII was not a boom at all, but was just an increase from the baby drought of the previous years.
I say all this because of reading the bible for more than 50 years. If we read the bible enough to understand the main themes of the bible the wonderful truth of Gods plan will become known to us. We cannot just know a few verses or read summarys of the bible, we must really know what God has said to us.
I have studied the Book of John and the letters of John for years and have finally come to understand most of it. I may be a slow learner, but I finally got there.
LOL this guy is talking about the ‘normal birth rate’ of the 19th century!!! You guys satirize yourselves. Nobody could make this up!!!
Are you aware birthrates declined because mortality rates declined first? Add to that urbanization.
Perhaps we should go back to feudalism. Maybe that would make us appreciative of less earthly things.
Maybe you should think about your own statement; “Are you aware birthrates declined because mortality rates declined first?” You are assuming that a higher mortality rate is connected to the birth rate. Maybe you can site some research on that fact.
You are a man with a few admirable qualitys but taken as a whole, you don’t cut the mustard. You should try living in the real world for a few years, that would help you a bunch. Go to mass once everyday also. That is my perscription for what ailes you. LOL.
Im not your child SON. You can patronize me all you want, I don’t care what your opinion of me is.
Your ignorance is astounding. Why don’t you read a book? Think.
What if he isn’t a Catholic? What if he is an atheist? Who are you to tell someone how to live their life and how correct their thinking is or isn’t? Get over yourself. You don’t know everything, in fact, you don’t seem to know much at all.
The generation of our grandparents had many kids (usually around 9-13 kids).
The generation of our parents had on average 3-4 kids.
Today people have anywhere from 1-2 children and I would blame this on part to increasing costs of living, social/technological/industrial changes.
On the flip side, I think it is good that world population is decreasing. I would like to think that it means mega-corporations’s profits would be decreasing because demands would be decreasing. Which means that farmers would not be forced to mass produce. And that in the long term, it would help save on resources.
Is that what you think God wants, to save on resources? The bible says nothing about saving on resources, but says we will have all we need to live. God tells us to have children and lots of them. We don’t know the future; for all we know a disease could wipe out most of the humans on the earth in one year.
Watch “Food Inc.” and “Home” tell me if you still feel the same way
He is not going to watch such ‘secular’ works that are a product of the ‘liberal secular conspiracy’. Only some almost dead guy in Rome has all the answers.
I know some dead guys from Rome for which I had great admiration. It’s a pity that all that is lost and forgotten to this bs
SIlence wench, your liberal nonsense will not be tolerated here.
Well thats why religion is losing its grip. Believe whatever you want, you are not keeping up with technological progress. People are going to see you as increasing irrelevant. Short of massive nuclear war, we are NOT going back to the ‘good old days’.
hahaha. Religion needs to end, we’re in the 21st century for goodness sakes.
The bible was also a book written thousands of years ago when there weren’t many people, and children were used as a source of labor. The bible also says to throw babies off of cliffs and to force your daughter to marry her rapist for fifty pieces of silver and she can NEVER divorce him. Do you follow all of the bible’s teachings or do you just pick and choose the ones that sound happy and fairy tale like, like so many other “people of faith”?
If we could sustain three generations in a row having 2 children, we could have long term sustainability.
LOL, I don’t hate children, but don’t really like then either. Too much responsibility. I enjoy relaxing. I don’t believe in Satan because it’s a fairly tale. Oh no….
I guess your are glad your parents didn’t have the same beliefs that you have. Every one enjoys relaxing.
False dichotomy and guilting.
Well, I guess more people should come to my conclusion then. My parents made their choice, I’ve made mine.
Your parents made two choices; first to love someone else and care for someone else, second to have children that are a union with their love for each other.
Since you say “I”, then you must not have made the first choice either. You are a family of one. One is a lonely number. But you are king of your family and it does whatever you tell it to do.
I’m a family of 7 actually. I live with my brother in law, sister in law, and their 2 kids. I have a wife and a dog. My wife and I are helping them out because it’s hard raising a family on a single average income.
Best response ever.
One is a lonely number? It really depends. Alienation is a lot worse than loneliness.
I don’t like quoting people. It comes off as pretentious and lazy. However in this case case I think its appropriate to quote Nietzsche: ‘The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.’
NOT ALL CHILDREN ARE LOVED AND APPRECIATED! Look at the news! There are children being abused, raped, killed and tortured every day! Millions of abortions go on every year. Millions of children go through the foster system without ever being adopted. What kind of fairy tale world do you live in? You say you are an older man, but it doesn’t like sound the saying “with age comes wisdom” holds true in your case.
“people should come to MY conclusion”… you really are a deluded arrogant piece of work, my friend.
Children don’t ASK to be born, so why exactly should we be grateful that our parents screwed and got pregnant? Most people are a result of an accident anyway. Life is full of struggle and frustration, it is not some grand utopia that we should be grateful to live in, especially with today’s economy. Go tell the starving and parasite riddled/aids carrying, raped, beaten, and enslaved children in Ethiopia that they should be grateful for being alive. Life is not a miracle, is the consequence of an action. Only someone born into a comfortable existence has the arrogance to say such a thing. I worked hard to come up from a life of poverty and abuse as a child, to a comfortable financially secure life and I don’t plan on fucking that up any time soon with a bunch of snot nosed brats.
There are a lot of deluded vapid ‘positive thinkers’ on this site.
Morons… 99% of them.
niggers aren’t people, they are merely an advanced form of ape capable of mimicing, though poorly, human speech
You’re a fucking idiot, don’t try to communicate with me anymore.
I guess I hate children because I’m a satanist? Not because they ruin your body, sex life, finances, scream, cry, shit and piss themselves, throw tantrums when they don’t get what they want, do stupid things like rub paint on your LCD TV… no. It must be because I’m a satanist. Thanks for figuring it all out for me, otherwise I might not have been able to do it without your help!
Wow. Just wow. You have reduced humans to their most primal in the name of a higher power.
Did you read the same piece as I did? I don’t see that your comment reflects awareness of Mr. Burdick’s writing…but the same piece can of course strike two people very differently. What did he talk about that was “most primal?”
Reproduction is primal and amoral. Bee reproduce. Bacteria reproduces. They do it without thinking. How complex is this?
There is no reason for EVERYONE to reproduce. Many individual animals never reproduce and the species continues to thrive. It is what drives evolution.
It is not necessary on the micro or macro for human beings. We only need a replacement rate of 2.1 to keep our population stable.
Bees and bacteria ‘reproduce’, but they don’t have CHILDREN and RAISE children. Your comment(s) does not reflect at all that you understand what was written. I assume you are a troll, looking to disagree.
No I am NOT a troll. In fact, I am surprised you don’t find me quite transparent. You know that wolves, whales, and apes raise their offspring. This is not complex stuff. If anything it feels like you trolling by playing dumb.
I am not pushing any ideology here. This is simple stuff. There are 8 billion people. Do we really need to have everyone having children? Do you think you will be successful convincing everyone to have children?
wow… talk about inflation.. you just tacked on almost a BILLION people, in one sentance!! talk about your population explosion LOL.
Ok my bad. Its doesn’t change anything. BTW, its ‘sentence’ not ‘sentance’ if you want to get picky about details.
Funny how someone yells “troll” when someone has an opposing argument. Your comments are only considered valid when they agree with everyone else.
That is how consensus truth works.
Consensus truth unfortunately isn’t TRUTH :/
When the Catholic Church talks about procreation, it talks about the moral aspects involved and not any malthusian theory or demographic science. We cannot mix them irrationally. Those who views this problem from purely mundane and secular way, are a sort of cafeteria groups
Timothy Burdick was talking about procreation in the biological sense.
You can still offer your ideas to the world without encouraging everyone to have children.
Um, no. Kc was right on.
Timothy, your original article was called ‘6 Reasons Why Everyone Should Have Children’ and you didn’t mention much theology. How much room is there to misinterpret such an article?
Your argument is illogical here, hat. 1st off, because I am the author and I would know my motivations for writing my articles better than anyone else. Second, because IgnitumToday is a religious online magazine and therefore, all articles are guaranteed to have religious undertones if not blatantly obvious about their religiosity. In fact, the original article had several theological points that you apparently have chosen to ignore in troll-like form. If you don’t believe me, go back to points 5 and 6 from the last article. I am beginning to wonder if you are truly wanting to understand my position or lobbying to make YOUR position heard.
RE: lobbying to make your position heard: which is ok with me, but the mode which you are using is antagonistic and non-edifying. I’ve done nothing but seek your friendship and you have responded with negativity.
I don’t understand how I am being antagonistic or non-edifying. I am clearly stating my position in order to understand yours.
I also don’t understand how I am being ‘negative’ with you. Anyone could say anything they don’t like or agree with is ‘negative’. Are you trying to guilt me??
Dumber people are more likely to be breeders. + Get over yourself. In 100 years nobody will care what people like you have to say. + Having less people like [me] in the world… your words.
You know what. You are right. I did say that.
I was getting frustrated and I am getting frustrated again by your inability to meet me anywhere in the middle. I have addressed your theology and you just keep on going in circles. You can’t even address the concept of sacrifice which seems to be the basis of all your believes. You can’t even tell me why you chose your wife. What are you doing talking about love???
Believe whatever you want. Stop telling people what to do in their private lives if you can’t justify your arguments.
So why did you write a response article to an article that was not advocating anything but rather highlighting a trend? Your reasons why people should have children are prosaic at best and completely inaccurate and destructive at worst. Why not just cut to the chase and state that you want everyone to be Catholic? Its like you are trying to sneak your religion into the public sphere.
You are completely correct is calling it prosaic. How could one possibly express true love in words? As far as destructive and inaccurate, I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree there.
I don’t understand. Are you saying that having children is the only way to express true love, or are you saying that you expressing that everyone should have children is your only way of articulating love because love is so hard to articulate?
THis was the final quote in the last article: “In conclusion, I have no problem with a couple’s decision to not have children if they do not desire. However, I’ve come to the realization that there is no better way to get to heaven than by exercising the necessary patience, self-control, understanding and happiness that being a parent requires. –
And I should have added “love” to that list
So?? What’s wrong with that???????
Nothing…
Oh, you said that. Yes but the patience, self-control, understanding, and happiness come FIRST. They are not a product of having children.
Good point. But if you havnt had kids, then you wouldn’t understand the degree to which these virtues need to be multiplied.
What?? Suffering does NOT lead to virtue.
No, but virtue does give meaning to suffering.
Virtue is a tool, not an end.
I prefer to avoid suffering than revel in it by finding meaning in it. You make it sound like suffering is a goal. Martial artists practice getting hit, but they end goal is to eliminate your threat. The toughness is a tool so that if the DO get hit they can carry on. Its not supposed to be a contest of who is the toughest. The best fighters are those that can avoid getting hit and hit back.
I can’t help but feel like you want to build a community of commiserators. The joy in commiseration is limited and you will never flourish.
Perhaps, but the fact of the matter is that suffering does occur. In extending one’s hand to help one out of suffering requires one to enter into a world of sacrifice. My stance is that if one wishes to be truly joyful, then they could be able to do so not only when times are good, but also when they are difficult.
I don’t think extending one’s hand is sacrifice. A hand out is sacrifice. I help people so that at the very least I can learn. I help others to help myself.
Sounds kind of selfish, wouldn’t you say?
YES IT IS. I AM SELFISH. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING SELFISH. THE BEST WAY TO HELP OTHERS IS TO BE THE BEST YOU CAN BE WITH OTHERS DOING THE SAME SO THAT EVERYONE OVERFLOWS ONTO EACH OTHER. IF A GREATER GOOD EXISTS IT LIES IN EACH OF US BECOMING THE BEST WE CAN BE SO THAT WE DON’T NEED HIERARCHIES TELLING US WHAT TO DO BECAUSE WE ARE ALL INDEPENDENT.
Is it possible to be a good person if the only reason you help others is to help yourself?
I would argue no. I sacrifice, but only for things that have proven to me to be worthwhile.
See, I would argue that dignity is the crux of helping others. If you’re not doing it for the sole purpose of making them better people and asking nothing in return, then the act treats the “helped” person unjustly, robbing them of their dignity by using them as pawns in your personal development.
Thats how human beings grow. Thats how people pass on knowledge. Thats how we connect to one another. Its the most dignified and sincere thing I can imagine.
Your concept of helping people is nothing more than a handout. It may be a spiritual handout, but a handout nonetheless.
Wait, wait, wait. I can’t believe I missed this. I have noticed another tactic you use is to offer these pat answers that turn everything into a false dichotomy. I can’t believe I still fall for these tricks.
A person can be selfish and selfless depending on the circumstances. Being selfless all the time is not practical. Complete selflessness is nothing more than obedience until death. You also have to pick only ONE master you have to be selfless for.
If your concern is to help people around you, you must strike a balance between selfish and selfless. To be honest, I think both words are wrong.
My humble feeling is that hat has some misconceptions.Recently I read an article by a communist ( forgot the name of the publication) stating that many of his thoughts about the Catholic Church and opinions he had from some friends were found to be wrong when he took time to study each item without any preconception and with an open heart delving deep to see the basis of Catholic teachings. He added that he still believed in communist philosophy and concluded that differences in ideology or faith would always exist and continued research and study should be preferred to angry protests or condemnation. The Church never says people should go on procreating . So better to patiently listen to the stand taken by Church and the basic reason for it. Nothing will come out of anger,hatred,condemnation.
What are my misconceptions?
We cannot go on like this . We may have to tolerate differences.According to believers,the teachings of Jesus is fully true. Leave them to follow their belief. If someone thinks that such belief is due to ts of an authority he
I have no problem with people’s beliefs. I do have a problem with people who want to invade the political sphere in order to tell people what to do in their private lives.
The more you place yourself in the public sphere the more you open yourself up to scrutiny.
Neither hat nor me can stop people from thinking.None can stop religion. Religion is something to be practiced and so its work will be visible in public No one can stop that. Similarly politics is something to be practiced and so the activities will be visible. So as long as there is human generation,there will be religion ,atheism and all opinions. They cannot be confined within four wslls. So please agree tp disagree instead of angrr and srgument. If eone wants to have the last say, let him
People have every right and reason to publicly express their views. There is a big difference between that and uniting church and state.
Even if he were trying to make his position heard, you wrote 2 entire articles making your position heard, so really what’s the difference?
You never answered my question as to why you love your spouse.
Again, I am not saying you shouldn’t love her or that you don’t, but WHY did you choose her over all the other Catholics that exist in the world? I know we should strive to love everyone, but why did you choose to spend the rest of your life with HER IN PARTICULAR? This is not a trick question.
Joy in reciprocity through constant self sacrifice on both sides of the spousal relationship multiplied by similar servicial charisms
So what joys and interests do you share together that neither of you are sacrificing for? If your entire relationship is built on sacrifice, couldn’t you do that with anyone? Why did you choose her?
No, I can’t do that with just anyone. Just her.
Soviet soldiers sacrificed their lives by the millions for Stalin without ever having met him. People sacrifice their self-interest every day in this world for some amorphous greater good.
Your wife is an individual human being. Surely she must do something for you that no one else can. When she sacrifices for you, what is she sacrificing and what are you getting?
Again, not sure why my prior comments weren’t sufficient enough for you. “Joy in reciprocity” is my answer again. She and only she provides me with spousal joy by sacrificing her time, her thoughts and yes, even her prayers with me in the same way I provide it for her. It is a complete detachment of self, an ideology that says with her I will bear all hardships, believes all of her words, hope for all of her success, and endure all of our sufferings.
So your joy comes from the concept of her sacrificing in general? But what does she specifically sacrifice TO YOU you that gives you joy that no other Catholic women could give? At best it sounds like misery loves company, at worst it sounds like you are delighting in her sacrifice.
You tell me that you think I am your new friend even though you have never met me and you can’t even explain why you chose your wife in marriage.
I don’t want to make this personal. Just try to understand that if your kids don’t think the same way that you do, its not because they hate you or because they have an agenda. Everyone grows in their own way. They are not going to see things your way on your timetable. God may help you, but there is no harm in people who help themselves. They are just trying to grow.
I agree with the points in the article. But how to teach or convince the Catholic point of view ? The atmosphere is so secular the other views are not listened to. Even if listen, the veracity of authority is questioned or the faith in traditional morality is considered as foolish and irrational. I come across youngsters who hold the difficult ideas and who do not want anything from an organized religion.
What can be the remedy ? We have to pray that the heavenly Father have mercy on them and draw them to Jesus
The atmosphere is secular where? On this page or in society? I hate to break it to you but most of the west is a secular democracy and has been that way for many years. You are not going to unite church and state.
Western secularism is not that all best. They have started to harvest the crop in the form of all societal ills. They will never learn a lesson,because their secularism isdevoid of God and moral .Though not I agree, they are going to be under a new dangerous religious concept which may fully eliminate them.
What is going to eliminate them?
‘We may have to tolerate differences.According to believers,the teachings of Jesus is fully true. Leave them to follow their belief.’ If you unite church and state, will you let others ‘follow their belief’?
We should always be prepared to give an answer, but also to let the peace we offer come back to us if ignored.
I am not sure what you are talking about peace. I didn’t think we were talking about peace. I have peace in my life finally. Are you talking about the world? How is what you are doing going to bring about world peace.
I have not ignored you at all. In fact, you have been the ducking my questions. You posted an article about why everyone should have children, in response to someone else posting why they are happy NOT having children. Its not like they were saying NOBODY should have kids. YOU on the hand are saying EVERYONE should have them. I am trying to understand your position.
The very fact that you thought my comment was directed at you shows that you certainly are not at peace.
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.10:36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
So you and your wife sacrifice for each other so that you collectively can sacrifice for God so that God brings you peace?
Why is it that in war the greatest sacrifices are demanded? Isn’t peace obtained through honesty and reciprocity?
Before I answer this question, do you believe in God? What is your religious affiliation?
I don’t know what I believe. Thats why I question everything.
Have you come up with any moral absolutes?
I have ideas. I don’t know if I have any absolutes.
Who/where else have you gone to for further study? What books/ people/ideologies have you found some sort of solace in thus far?
All the way from the Left to the Right. Right now I am trying to get through Neitzsche and Ayn Rand.
I can tell you are on Neitzche 🙂 Can I throw in a quick recommendation? He’s Catholic, but a good read.
Hat, just a quick recommendation.I think ignitum today might be too small of a place for you. Your intellect might br more stimulated at strangenotions.com I say this to you as a friend and am always happy to have you commenting on my posts, but if you are looking for an even better discussion, their minds are much brighter than mine at strangenotions.com.
Now I can answer this question, but I’m curious to hear your response. I believe just as you do that peace could be obtained through honesty and reciprocity, but the fact is that humans are imperfect beings and most don’t even attempt to become perfect by practicing such noble virtues. We see this in communism, an ideology that attempts to destroy God and place human intellects as the forerunner of society. But even the greatest of all humans has his/her origin in something that science cannot explain, something beyond humanity. For as long as humans are able to dream, an unexplainable phenomenon that has boggled the mind of the best psychologists, humanity will seek absolute truth beyond the sciences, even beyond their political ideologies. Hence, communism fails because humans are flawed. Democracy will also fail once it looses its virtue. A democracy without virtue will vote itself right out of democracy. In fact, any other human system will fail. It is only what the Divine has instituted that will survive. So, to answer your question, I believe peace is a grace given to us by God through those who are brave enough to fight for it. The intrinsic motivation to bring peace to the world must have love as its driving force. That’s why I love my wife. That’s why I love my kids. And to the extent that I am able to put love into words (it is FAR easier to put it into action), I will do so here at IT.
A who determines what is virtue and truth?? Thats the problem. We have leaders both religious and secular that demand sacrifice for our own good in order to lead us to their utopia. Its a con.
You are right. We might be flawed. Thats why I want no leaders, no gurus, and no experts. No one has a monopoly on the truth. Not even scientists have all the answers, but they have bring much improvement to our life. The final answer lies within the individual.
I want to live in the here and now. I will sacrifice for people that I choose to, but I refuse to sacrifice for any ideology. If people were just honest with each other they wouldn’t need a faith. They could live with doubt. They could actually enjoy it and question.
I want to enjoy my mind and my body. I want my joys and my rage. It makes me human. And I will not apologize for that. If God doesn’t like that he should have thought twice before bringing me into this world. I did not ask to be born.
God determines absolute truth through revelation. For example, you see honesty as virtuous, why not deception? In your heart is written a law that you abide by and that you desiree others to abide by because the end result is peace and joy. Your conscience, a sense of the beyond is bothered when injustice occurs and you respond by fighting for that justice. All of this has its root in God who desires us to work with Him to establish peace. He uses everything in His power to motivate us from the inside out so that we might use our freewill to unite with Him and others to extend the possibikity of hope, peace and ultimately joy.
“Your conscience, a sense of the beyond is bothered when injustice occurs and you respond by fighting for that justice.” NO NO NO. Its not a sense of beyond. Justice is an abstraction, even more so than ‘truth’.
How do you know where my feelings come from?? I do not desire ANYONE to think like me. People should be free to create their own virtues. People without empathy are going to do whatever they want. You can’t teach them to have empathy. I would rather empower people with empathy to think for themselves.
Who does God reveal themselves to? How do we know they are not liars?
God reveals Himself through His Church. It is the only consistent way to gage truth. And by that, I mean the Catholic Church since it is the only Church that is able to say that Jesus Christ, God Himself in the second Person of the Trinity, founded it while still on earth.
There are THOUSANDS of churches and religions all claiming to have the ‘truth’. If its true for you, its true for you. It doesn’t mean its going to be true for other people.
You are monopolizing ‘truth’ in the name of something as abstract as justice and virtue. Even if you had the ‘truth’ it wouldn’t lead to justice and virtue. Justice is a relationship between people and virtue is a concept centered around the self. Even with the ‘truth’ you can’t make justice and virtue uniform.
Not so. Every other religion was founded by men claiming to know truth. The Catholic Church, however, was founded by a Man who claimed to be God in the flesh. His cross established peace and it is offered to all who follow His law of love. Truth is not subjective. That very notion is illogical. Truth cannot be one thing for one person and another thing for another person. Truth is objective and can be pitted against faulty human reasoning. Jesus Christ is that Truth and you can call Him a liar, a lunatic, or bow down before Him and call Him Lord. He didn’t leave subjective truth as an option for us. To put it in the words of St. Thomas Aquinas, “Truth Himself speaks truly, or else there’s nothing true.”
ALL THE CHURCHES SAY THAT THEY HAVE THE ‘TRUTH’.
‘Truth is objective and can be pitted against faulty human reasoning.’ THEN HOW ARE YOU HERE ON A COMPUTER TYPING THIS STUFF. WHERE DO YOU THINK THIS TECHNOLOGY CAME FROM? IT WASN’T REVEALED. IT WAS DISCOVERED THROUGH REASON AND TRIAL AND ERROR.
But not all Churches were founded by Truth Himself.
As for your computer analogy, the question isn’t whether or not technology exists, or whether human intellect is supreme. The question is whether or not God exists and that is a question that only philosophy and theology are concerned with. To use “trial and error” with the supernatural is like trying to destroy a tank with a fly swatter.
Human intellect is not supreme. The point is nobody can be so sure of anything that they can dictate the virtues and destiny of other people. I feel like you are missing this crucial point.
I am not saying that the Church can dictate destiny nor virtue, it merely offers them as a means to joy. We have free will to follow that narrow road. If God exists. If His Son came down to earth and showed us how to live virtuously. If eternal paradise exists (and etranal damnation too). Wouldn’t you want the former?
I don’t want eternal salvation or eternal life.
You believe your church is the way to joy. If it works for you, it works for you. But don’t think you can inject your mandates into the public sphere and politics and then justify it with something you can not prove.
Is it possible for someone to be an empathetic person with a moral compass and a sense of boundaries that adds value to other people’s lives and not be Catholic?
Yes! “The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.” CCC p.843
And what if they don’t believe in any religion?
Again, while we believe we have the fullness of truth, we don’t believe that you have to have any religion to enter heaven. We believe we will be juged by the amnt of light we were given. The aborigine in Australia that’s never heard of Jesus, Allah, or vishnu has just as much a chance if he follows universal moral truths that are eritten on his heart, ie: he knows that killing innocent life or cheating on his wifr are naturally offensive.
What if someone else has proven it? When you’re finished with Nietzsche, try reading Aquinas. I think you’ll enjoy his shorter Summa Theologica.
Proven what? I go by probabilities and which ideas work best.
Again, I refer you to Aquinas.
I can’t believe you actually said this!
It was the Romans that founded the Catholic Church!
And subjective truth exists. You are subjected to it everyday of your life yet you don’t even know it!
As an example…
Me: I’m cold
You: I’m not.
Who is right? You or Me?
Good point, I’ll admit that subjective truth does exist, but objective truth trumps it every time. For example, your analogy is accurate in that it describes the feelings or sentiment of the situation and yes, both are correct because for that reason. However, the truer, more objective statement would be that “my body is better fit to maintain heat in the present environment.” (I’m assuming that the temperature is lower than normal for you to be cold).
In the end, when speaking about God, subjective truths that are based on personal feelings have a way of addressing a very shallow understanding of the world and its relationship with God. However, objective truth still exists and throughout all of my research, I believe the Catholic Church does the best job of spelling out the world and offering peaceful alternatives than any other religion. I am willing to change this mindset if you are able to offer me a solid alternative that explains objective truth better.
Um, endemic warfare was rampant under a Catholic Theocratic Europe. I will say this again and again and again, believe whatever you want, but when you make it sound like secularism is the enemy you almost sound mentally retarded. I do not have any disrespect for the mentally handicapped, but these ‘arguments’ really sound that stupid. Without secularism we never would have had science, democracy, or human rights. Without secularism you wouldn’t even have this web page. Do you really believe what you are saying?
Who invented the scientific method?
Who invented Catholicism?
Hi Tim,
just caught this 200 + comment thread that became unraveled and wanted to chime in (once).that
objective truth is not only better explained in the Hindu bible of Bahagavad-gita but upholds everything Jesus
taught. I admire your honest loyalty to our Church but
will not stick around to debate – in any form or manner –
this post, inserted somewhere near end point of this messy
dialogue that metastasized into ad museum.
Not only did the Romans found the Catholic Church, they only did so after they had outlawed it for hundreds of years. The bible wasn’t even put together until the 400s.
So the romans persecuted their own religion? Doesn’t sound like the Romans of true history. To answer your question, Jesus founded Catholicism and He demands that we imitate Him to attain true perfection in heaven wherr there is not a fraction of sin.This is why we practice virtue here as a preparation for heaven.
I’m on to your game. You waste time on minutea while ignoring the most important stuff. You throw out unsubstantiated claims and falsehoods that you don’t even address even after they are called out.
You know the Romans first legalized Christianity and then made it the official church. You are not stupid. You are a clever ideologue.
This might be practice for you, but its practice for me too. Remember it doesn’t matter how much you up your game, your game is ultimately limited. Your detractors grow day by day, year by year.
No games here, hat. Just an online dialogue that is sharpening both of our intellects.
Answer the question, who invented the scientific method?
Humans. Is it fallible? Yes. Do scientists make mistakes? Yes. Is its predictive power better than that of religion? Yes.
Science is not an ideology. Its a method.
Well played.
Another book recommendation by none other than one of the founders of this site, Stacy Trasancos. http://stacytrasancos.com/book/
Heard it all before. Its lies.
How do you prove it.
The fact that the forerunners of science were Christian proves nothing. Does the fact that most scientists now do not believe in a god render religion incorrect?
By no means, it only makes them less credible. If they are doing experiments without a ends to their means, then what’s the point? What are they seeking?
Really? I mean really? Nope. Not falling for it.
Hat,
Timothy has stated several times that he is only interested in absolute truth. There is no sense in trying to convince him of any other type of truth, relative or subjective or otherwise.
Which you so nicely convinced me of already 🙂
I AM NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE ANYONE OF ANY TRUTH. NOBODY HAS THE TRUTH. I JUST DON’T WANT PEOPLE PENNING ARTICLES TELLING PEOPLE THAT EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE KIDS SO THAT THE WORLD BECOMES A MORE MISERABLE PLACE SO THAT PEOPLE LOOK TO A ‘SAVIOR’ THAT OFFERS THEM ‘HOPE’.
I have said these things to you, that in me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation. But take heart; I have overcome the world. ~John 16:33
So God brought war to the world so that we can have peace, or is it that we can overcome God’s war with peace?
We brought war upon ourselves through sin. Jesus, God incarnate, came to divide the devout and deceived. In doing so, He has given each person an opportunity to choose which side they are on.
I thought Jesus died for our sins?? Now you are saying in Matthew he is bringing war to the world??
Yes, He did die for our sins, but we continue to suffer for them. Only the repentant thief that hung along side Him on the cross was promised paradise. That is only the first step of discipleship, the second is a response towards sharing the light of truth with others. Something I am attempting to do to the best of my ability here on IT.
Then why did he die for them? How did he change anything?
Before Him, we were all destined for eternal damnation because we all sin. He, being God incarnate, was able to withstand all human temptations and break the cycle of sin. In doing so, He opened the gates of heaven and asked us to take up our own crosses (namely sacrificing the material and self-indulgent vices that keep us away from perfection… [ does that help you understand my stance on sacrifice a bit more?]) and follow His law of love.
Correction, I wrote my original piece as a response to Time magazine promoting a childless lifestyle in which they claimed that more women were “Having it all without having children” and by *having it all*, they went into great detail about the “benefits” of living a very shallow life based on materialism and self-interest, two ideologies that blatantly threaten not only the nuclear family, but the whole of society as well.
I can sort of understand how that article comes off as if its promoting not having children, but it is not stating that NOBODY should have kids. Thats an absurd concept. If anything it was just trying to remove the stigma of not having kids by stating the benefits. Obviously people weigh the pros and cons for themselves.
It is not materialism/consumerism per say that threatens the nuclear family as it is mechanization(ie the industrial revolution). Materialism is a consequence of mechanization.
In a earlier comment I blamed feminism, however feminism is also a consequence of mechanization. The bottom line is before the advent of modern technology and systems of organization, women were dependent on men for protection and provision. Its just not the case anymore.
Starting in the 60’s with no fault divorce, the vast mass of women walked away from their traditional gender roles in droves and never looked back. Traditionalism and the so called ‘Patriarchy’ is dead. Unless you want to bomb the world back to pre industrialism, its not coming back.
Welcome back, hat. These are the kind of comments that spur some congenial points. I’d somewhat agree with you you, but I don’t think the war is over.
What war? Its called technological progress and organizational change.
Defending the nuclear family can still be done through organizational change. That is what I meant by war.
What are you proposing?
Something that I believe both you and I agree on, that spouses truly love each other and truly love their children by promoting their spiritual, economic and community success to the point that nuclear families become a norm regardless of if the mother and father are both working.
I don’t know how much that will help in long run. True its hard to have a stable family in bad economic conditions, but marriage started to decline in the 60s when economic times were good. The long term trend regardless of economic cycle has been down.
Agreed, but we made it through the 20s, didn’t we? A funny thing happens when people get poor, they tend to depend more on each other.
And tear each other limb from limb at times… but that is another topic all together… ;-/ I think it is fair to say that my contact with the poor leans more towards the first description, especially my experience of having been poor.
They also rape and kill each other more.
Look, times are changing. Believe whatever you want. If it helps you so be it. I just don’t understand why you insist on pushing your views on children, contraception, homosexuality, and divorce into the public sphere. If you don’t like those things then don’t do them.
Keep religion out of politics. Its irrelevant. Soon we will have artificial wombs. The human race is evolving.
I hate feminism, but I also realize that feminism was a product of organizational and technological growth. I don’t have the answers. Nobody does. Thats why I am searching.
I hope the Time magazine has not convinced you into believing that childless = living a shallow life based on materialism and self-interest.
I spend most of my time learning about anything and everything, building new skills and discovering new talents. And I am far from being materialistic. Perhaps others find fulfillment in materialism but I do not.
It is not a Time magazine article that is going to dissuade people from having children. People have children because they want to, regardless of external forces.
The nuclear family is being “threatened’ because things that were not acceptable before are now (divorce, homosexuality) and women are no longer considered to be below man. It is these and other social changes that have changed the face of the nuclear family.
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You said : “If you love your spouse, you don’t desire them to offend the natural order by mucking it up with birth control, abortion or other contraceptives. Truly loving each other requires both partners to be holy enough to desire not their personal pleasures.”
“Natural order” sometimes does not work as expected (e.g. menorraghia, endometriosis) and in these cases birth control helps to alleviate the symptoms. So please don’t shun people for “mucking it up with birth controls”.
And what if people are only searching for their personal pleasures? As long as both persons in the relationship are happy, I don’t see the problem.
You said : “In conclusion, I have no problem with a couple’s decision to not have children if they do not desire. However, I’ve come to the realization that there is no better way to get to heaven than by exercising the necessary patience, self-control, understanding and happiness that being a parent requires.”
You almost make it sound like you are using your children as an instrument to get to heaven. I always believed that it is not the destination that matters but the journey.
Do you believe that more people are using birth control to help menorraghia and endometriosis or so that they can enjoy sex without having children? I (and as far as I know, the Catholic Church) has no problem with using medication to help heal the body so long as it does not mess with the natural order of procreation.
I actually do know quite a few women whom do use birth controls for these very reasons. Not to mention to regulate cycles.
And yes people do use birth control so that they can enjoy sex without having children and I do not see a problem with that.
It is being responsible.
I see it as being selfish and lacking in self control.
How is it selfish? You are not coercing or hurting anyone. There is a difference between self-control and self-denial.
Agreed, but by using contraceptives in order to not have children, you are not giving of your complete self. It is an intrinsic evil that comes off as harmless, but look what happens as a result, more breast cancer, more abortions, more divorce and more weak-minded people.
What about blowjobs or anal sex? Serious question. They don’t lead to birth.
Serious answer: not ethical. Based solely on pleasure. Sex was meant for procreation and pleasure. Both go against the natural order. Lots of new studies out on how blow jobs and anal sex cause colon and throat cancer. The human body simply was not designed to handle such activity.
What about circumcision?
So is that why bonobos masturbate have oral sex and have homosexual sexual encounters? Because they’re sinful? Or is it because it’s a natural thing to do, and that humans invented the idea of sin?
What if I fantasize of ramming Jesus himself while I bang my born again Christian wife? Is doggystyle ok? Is that sinful or holy?
Actually there would be more abortions if women did not use contraceptives. And more unwanted children. Oh look! Overpopulation!
People divorce for different reasons and I doubt that contraceptives was one of them.
And can you elaborate on how using contraceptives leads to more weak-minded people?
Of course. There are many instances in which taking shortcuts are harmful to our minds and bodies. For example, when obese people get liposuction, it isn’t long before they gain their weight back because they are not properly disciplined to eat well and exercise. While they might be satisfied for a short while, their have not mastered the self-control necessary to attain their true desire of loosing weight and keeping it off so as to live healthier. Contraception and abortions have the same effect. People see sex as recreational nowadays and as a result, they cut corners by placing poisons in their bodies so as to escape the consequences of child-rearing. As a result, more lives are aborted, more relationships destroyed and people’s minds become weakened both mentally and physically because they are unable to control their passionate sexual desires.
What poisons? How many deaths per year.
Timothy Burdick, why did you circumcise your son if you are against liposuction and abortion?
I had an abortion, and my marriage is stronger than it was back when I had the procedure. Abortions do not lead to failed marriages. I would do it again in a heart beat if I became pregnant. It’s easy for you to say child bearing is rewarding… you’re a man. You don’t go through pregnancy, labor, delivery and postpartum depression.
Would you recommend a couple who cannot afford to keep the lights on in their house not use protection when having sex?
The natural order of procreation?? Marriage is a human invention designed to pass on property and create social stability that has had many different forms throughout the world.
Traditional marriage in Tibet involved brothers sharing one wife. This was done to limit population growth and to prevent the division of family property. This was done because there is not much arable land in Tibet. In other parts of the world one man would have multiple wives.
Procreation is not possible without resources to sustain it. Children can not live off faith alone.
I notice you blame religion for the wars in Europe. I just finished “Iron Kingdom” which is about the history of Prussia from 1600-1945, a well documented book that is 600 pages long. In the book the wars during the period and how they came to be started is well documented. Religion had nothing to do with any of them in that period. In fact religion was very much ignored by the progressive states of the time. Most people are unaware of the history of Prussia and had rather talk about the bad ol Nazies. You can go on Amazon and read some of the reviews to verify what I am saying.
Did. I. Say. Religion. Is. The. Cause. Of. All. Wars.
You are right, it does kind of sound like I am using my kids to get to heaven. However, to clarify, I consider it another means that many people can agree with. Not all of us are called to be celibate (or childless), but the vocation to which you are called will allow for the grace to be given to you that will result ultimately in your perfection. So, if you are a Catholic priest, an infertile married couple, or the mother and father of 12, we are all called to practice the virtue of chastity.
There is no such thing as perfection. People have different strengths and weaknesses. How can you believe in perfection if you believe in sin?
Jesus.
No one will ever become Jesus.
“Be perfect, just as your heavenly Father is perfect.” Matthew 5:48 The expectations are high, so high that we can only achieve them in the next life.
So then why does he tell us to be perfect?
Because it is through discipline and obedience to a higher power that we become so. Why do we tell the young boy that he can become a star in the NBA? So that he can listen to his coaches and discipline his mind in body to become part of something greater than himself, namely a team that can carry him to victory. The same goes for Christ. While we train throughout the regular season down here on earth, we win the championship in heaven.
A coach does not demand complete obedience in every area of life. Even martial arts instructors(good ones) will teach a style, but the goal is to eventually get the student to become a unique fighter.
But without the fundamentals, there is no unique fighter. Even so, the body can only bend in so many ways and, based on your athleticism, you still need to abide by the laws of physics. Even the most unique fighters must have a very strict following of the rules of their fighting style in order to be considered good.
You are good, but like I said before your game is limited. A good fighter knows his on body and listens to it. He does not deny it.
A good fighter follows no rules. He follows his instincts and he does what it takes to survive.
I see yours as far more limited, hat. For you are a lone soldier fighting individually for as long as your life gives you breath. As for me, I will not only fight alongside the armies of angels and Saints, but I will do so for eternity.
Nonsensical gibberish.
Wow… You have been going on about not disrupting natural order yet you are for it! Do you deny that humans are sexual beings? That we are far more than animals whom only have sexual intercourse for the purpose of reproducing?
It makes me wonder what you think about kissing and touching.
I love it! Ask my wife 🙂 But There are other methods that are quite aligned with the Natural Order.
I love it! Just ask my wife 🙂 There are other methods that quite certainly align with the natural order.
I love it! Just ask my wife 🙂 There are other methods that quite certainly align with the natural order.
I love it! You can ask my wife! There are other ways to avoid having children during inopportune moments. The first and most effective is abstinence. But there’s also Natural Family Planning and the Creighton model. To add, i don’t deny that we are sexual beings, I just think that our sexuality is not what defines us, Christ does. For that reason, in everything we give and receive, even intercourse, it is imperative that we recognize what is good true and beautiful in it.
Even animals have sex for recreational reasons.
I exercise patience and self control every day I go to work. I don’t think it is necessary to have children to be happy. I have been married for 20 years to a great girl and neither of us wanted kid’s or had them. If that’s selfish, that’s fine.
But aren’t we all selfish?Everyone that I know has children because they wanted them.
What a bunch of nonsense. Have kids if you like children and are willing to make the sacrifices that come along with it. A 100k or more in salary doesn’t hurt either. No kids for me. I’m too selfish and lazy for children. It’s bad enough that I have to go to work ALL OF THE TIME, I don’t want my home life to be a chore as well. Kids suck, dogs rule! Just the right amount of responsibility.
Cats are even easier, you don’t have to walk them 😉 lol!
There’s so much artistry that goes into each human being, don’t you think? For example, I’m 7 weeks pregnant. The baby is ~4 weeks. (Thanks to NFP for knowing conception dates!) According to the Endowment for Human Development, his or her heart has already beat more than 2 1/2 MILLION times at this very point in time! Only four weeks from conception! Don’t know about you, but that blows my mind! Paraphrasing Chesterton, “We perish for want of wonder, not want of wonders.”
This might sound a little sappy, but I was thinking about it the other day. How is family life NOT an adventure? You have a community of unique beings together in one place whose task it is to confront the challenges before them, and thrive. Tough? Yeah. Unpredictable? Yes. Important? Supremely so. Aren’t those all earmarks of adventures?
You don’t have to have a ‘family’ to have an adventure. I know a lot of catholic families that are dysfunctional and miserable.
Hat, I’ll respond this once. Thanks for the backhanded compliment. Except for calling me delusional 😉 I find it sad that you seem to think, according to your statement, that “cosmic truth” and positive thinking are contradictory. I don’t mean to misinterpret what you are saying though. That’s how I can best package it. However, there’s certainly some truth to what you say. It’s important to make yourself small in the face of truth.
We’re creatures! I am in awe of natural processes. I’m an artistic person and I appreciate the power of creativity. I’m one artist appreciating the work of another, and can see intention behind the design. That’s what drew me to God in the beginning. I care about the environment as well, because I care about life and beauty. Call me a bleeding heart!
As for dysfunctional families? Of course. We all need help. I don’t see how that relates?
I’ve read through a lot of your comments. I’m not sure what your intentions are. I try to give people benefit of the doubt. I’d be more interested in responding if I thought you were interested. Otherwise, it’s not really a dialogue, but two monologues, which is unfortunate. If I see some good faith on your part, then I might think it fruitful to respond.
It wasn’t a backhanded compliment, just a simple statement which you still don’t seem to understand. Just because it doesn’t jive with your groove or augment your aura, it doesn’t mean its a personal attack. Although I can see how it comes off that way considering how much emotional energy you must invest ever day to convince yourself of your ‘truth’.
‘As for dysfunctional families? Of course. We all need help. I don’t see how that relates?’ Solipsism.
‘I’ve read through a lot of your comments. I’m not sure what your intentions are. I try to give people benefit of the doubt. I’d be more interested in responding if I thought you were interested. Otherwise, it’s not really a dialogue, but two monologues, which is unfortunate. If I see some good faith on your part, then I might think it fruitful to respond.’ Sorry, I don’t do Jedi mind tricks.
You are making this into rocket science.
Hat, we welcome and encourage healthy dialogue, but I am concerned by some of your comments. Can you please state your purpose for engaging our readers?
My purpose is to understand the mind and thinking of others. What is your purpose
If that’s your purpose, then tone it down.
My purpose is to run a website for Catholics, and I have zero obligation to tolerate insult to our readers.
What exactly above did I say that was an ‘insult’? I didn’t seek this site out. I googled something on population growth or reproductive rates and I got to an article on ‘Six Reason Everyone Should Have Kids’.
Actually I think my comments have been very on point and productive. If you want this site just to be for Catholics, why is it open to the public and why do you comment on secular issues like Feminism and having children?
I love my husband and he loves me but we don’t want children… how do you explain that?
You have no sex life, honey.
Contraception works, ya know.
By the way, I presume you don’t think consecrated religious should be having children, at least not in a physically procreative fashion?
SEX BABY! LET’S TALK ABOUT YOU AND ME
What does this have to do with religion, politics, or philosophy?
I think you are sexy. @littleknives:disqus Let’s HAVE KIDS! THAT’S WHAT THIS MOTHER FUCKING ARTICLE SUGGESTS.
There is an unbelievable number of utterly lost, hate-filled and vile people posting here. The hatred of the most normative and good of all human institutions: marriage and the family. Children who are the greatest blessing of any relationship. Most of the postings are absolutely evil coming from very broken and confused but extremely selfish children.
So I’m broken and evil because I dislike children? Who are you to call me evil? You are doing nothing but casting insults, judgements and titles at me when you know nothing about me, other than the comments that I, and people who are like-minded have posted. For all you know, I donate my time and money to the less fortunate, and am taking educational courses to become a civil servant. You know nothing. I am married, my husband and I, and my cat, are family enough. It isn’t up to you, or Timothy, the author of this “article” to define what the word “family” means. You can sit and disagree with me, and how I choose to live my life, but honestly, I don’t really mind that much. It certainly is a form of entertainment.
I know with out complete certainty that you don’t do any of the charitable acts you enumerate and you’re clear so broken and deluded that you don’t even appreciate how unnatural and vile you sound.
Thanks for the comic relief. Childish delusion is always humorous for adults.
You know with “complete certainty”? How? You are arrogant and ignorant at the same time, which makes you the worst sort of person. Unnatural? Why, because I’m a woman and I dislike kids? Well, you are also beginning to remind me how much I hate adults, too, so don’t feel left out!
I read your two posts as a kind of “rah-rah” for family and children, and as a father myself I can appreciate the sentiment. My two children are the best thing that ever happened to me and sparked a huge amount of spiritual and personal growth.
Unfortunately, number six of this post (If you haven’t had kids, and especially if you don’t desire to have them, you don’t know what it is like.) is sophistry at best, irresponsible advice that trivializes childrearing at worst. You should have kids just because you don’t what its like? Really?!
And are you really saying married couples should have children because they’re easier to personally evangelize than strangers? “Granted, our reach is only extendable to those who find us who, more often than not, are complete strangers. This form of evangelization, although fairly effective, has the drawback of being impersonal. Having children, on the other hand, allows one to engage our own flesh and blood with the ever-changing realities of the world and how they relate to Truth.”
Also, you are in need of an editor. Go right now and google “Subject verb agreement” and read your blog post again. “The nuclear family edifies society by embracing their children…” No, “the nuclear family embraces ‘its’ children…”
I don’t even understand what this run on, non sequitur sentence means: “By pitting social issues and experiences across the broad time frame that spans between parent and child, the discovery of that which is good, beautiful and true rises from the indifference and boredom that the world seems to love.”
You also need to slow down there pardner, and think about what’s on the paper and what’s in your head. Consider: “the loved child holds within him/her a power greater than the worst evils the world can throw at them…such servicial power is a wick just waiting to be ignited by the eager hearts of our children”
So the loved child (hee hee you said “love child”) holds within him/her a power that is a wick waiting to be ignited by the eager hearts of…our children..? Don’t you mean their parents? And servicial, like ain’t, ain’t a word.
“In having children, you please God by taking them into your care…” this also makes no sense. So do you please God by having children or taking them into your care (two different things)? And if you mean you please him you doing both, that’s not what your sentence says.
Should be: “You please God by having children and taking them into your care…”
Also, seriously, learn to love the “.” and stop attaching dependent clauses onto dependent clause, onto dependent clause. It conveys your passion for the subject matter but the meaning of your sentence gets diluted…when it isn’t lost completely.
the “because you love God” section is good. You have some short declarative sentences that make your point and then stop. You lose it on the last sentence, though.
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This is even more self centered than the last article, because every single thing you say is a completely subjective personal opinion. A reason is called a reason because you use reasoning to get it. These aren’t reasons because they don’t use reasoning, they’re nothing more than a collection of opinions that make you feel good.
dd
Having children is a personal choice and God is going to love you all the same no matter what you choose. Having children won’t make you a better Christian, quit forcing your agenda on people.